This is seriously disconnected from reality. You are asking teenage boys, with no support, to do something that alleged grown-ups aren't willing to do.
First of all, if the school is recognizing gender self-identification, which allows them to compete on the girls' team, then the boys could easily be accused of "mis-gendering" and possibly harassed for that. Look at the SJ State volleyball player who called out the travesty of a male on the female team and eventually dropped out of school because of the abuse she was getting. Are you seriously asking them to tell someone "they" are really not a girl and they should compete on your team? That makes no sense to me at all when you have "adults" who won't do that, either because they buy into the nonsense or they fear consequences for speaking out.
Boys want to fit in, not rock the boat, and you go along to get along. There are cliques with insiders and outsiders, and not everyone is accepted equally in the locker room. There is often hazing and harassment of some guys, worse in team sports like football and basketball, less likely in track, but it still exists as far as acceptance.
There is no way in the world it's fair to put this burden on teenage boys who are still working to find out where they belong. This is not on them, it's on the alleged grown-ups.".
“Some readers may feel no sympathy for teenage boys who lack the courage and integrity to stay out of girls’ sports. But boys who have been indoctrinated to believe they deserve female rights — and that they’re “really” girls or can become girls — should be educated, not blamed.”
Personally, I wouldn’t call it a failure of courage or integrity on the part of these boys, I’d call it a failure of wisdom. And it’s hard to blame a teenager for lacking wisdom, especially when the efforts to indoctrinate them otherwise have been so robust and well-funded.
Yes, let men welcome 'men-who-are-alienated-from-their-sex' into their toilets, locker rooms, sport competitions, prisons, universities and parliaments. Let them. And thank you Mariah and Cori, and so many others, for helping me work my way through this, while all the while my son undergoes chemical castration, in the hands of WPATH practitioners
OMG. So sorry to hear that, Mark. I’m glad you’re finding resources that help you understand what’s happening. And I hope that your son eventually does too. How tragic.
It’s important to emphasize, as you have done, that this question isn’t a new one. I’m old enough to remember Renee Richards. It is also important to flip this issue back to men as Cori and others are now doing. Accommodating and accepting gender non-confirming males should be dealt with by men whether it is being more accepting in sports or spaces. The Real Science of Sports podcast is wonderful. It is worthwhile to spend some time going through their archives and listen to the podcasts dealing with the IOC, Caster Semenya and males with DSDs as well as their discussions on the trans athletes issue. And finally a must read in addition to Helen Joyce is Unfair Play by Sharron Davies. She took a deep dive into the issue.
Did I send you that fascinating study on how trans and cis people think of identity: as a mental thing versus a physical thing? But alas, Descartes was wrong. We are just one entity that is made of our whole body including our brains, hormones, organs, which are all made of a plethora of tiny cells and chemicals. (Cogsci study is an on and off hobby for me.)
All I care about is that it is no longer our problem. If men want to take up the problem. they can. I don't want to feel in any way responsible for persuading or encouraging men to take up the problem because then it's back to being my problem.
I’ve said this other ways and don’t want to repost my own writing but “will athletes welcome girly boys” is precisely the point of female sexual mimicry. What other males say and do is irrelevant.
A key objective of men imitating women - sexual mimicry - is precisely to never have to compete with men in sports, in work, or for emotional and sexual fulfillment with women.
They don’t want to because it unmasks the fiction that they are female.
💯!! It's women who continue to, like in Scotland, fight for women and girls (with a few notable exceptions) at great cost. Men can absolutely help by opening their locker rooms and other spaces to "gender nonconforming" boys and men with intention and tolerance.
This is exactly what I have been saying for a while now. These boys have been lied to, given horrible advice, and now they think this is where they belong - in girls' sports (and spaces). Of course, that is wrong. The remedy is exactly what Cori says Let the boys and coaches on male teams explicitly invite girly" boys and masculine boys who just think they are girls (it being more of a mindset for some then a problem with masculinity) onto their teams and into their locker rooms. Let's show what real tolerance and empathy means. Rather than lying to boys by pretending they are girls, we can simply let them know they are welcome to play sports with other boys, because, no matter how effeminate they may be, and no matter what they think of themselves, they are, after all, boys.
The boys and men who are competing in girls' and women's athletic events are not at all "girly"! They are not at all feminine or effeminate. They have almost always already participated in male athletic competitions, sometimes for several years in high school and in college, but (this is really notable) they have not usually been very successful when competing against other boys or men.
We really need to have studies undertaken about these males to get an idea of how many of them actually think they are "trans women" ("born in the wrong body") versus how many are "just taking a piss", as the British expression would have it, motivated by a desire to win (which they were not able to do when competing against other males) and/or a desire to best and humiliate women and/or some other other yet-to-be hypothesized motivation.
This is seriously disconnected from reality. You are asking teenage boys, with no support, to do something that alleged grown-ups aren't willing to do.
First of all, if the school is recognizing gender self-identification, which allows them to compete on the girls' team, then the boys could easily be accused of "mis-gendering" and possibly harassed for that. Look at the SJ State volleyball player who called out the travesty of a male on the female team and eventually dropped out of school because of the abuse she was getting. Are you seriously asking them to tell someone "they" are really not a girl and they should compete on your team? That makes no sense to me at all when you have "adults" who won't do that, either because they buy into the nonsense or they fear consequences for speaking out.
Boys want to fit in, not rock the boat, and you go along to get along. There are cliques with insiders and outsiders, and not everyone is accepted equally in the locker room. There is often hazing and harassment of some guys, worse in team sports like football and basketball, less likely in track, but it still exists as far as acceptance.
There is no way in the world it's fair to put this burden on teenage boys who are still working to find out where they belong. This is not on them, it's on the alleged grown-ups.".
I like this approach.
“Some readers may feel no sympathy for teenage boys who lack the courage and integrity to stay out of girls’ sports. But boys who have been indoctrinated to believe they deserve female rights — and that they’re “really” girls or can become girls — should be educated, not blamed.”
Personally, I wouldn’t call it a failure of courage or integrity on the part of these boys, I’d call it a failure of wisdom. And it’s hard to blame a teenager for lacking wisdom, especially when the efforts to indoctrinate them otherwise have been so robust and well-funded.
Yes, better. Thanks. Immature by definition. Not a fault. A vulnerable, gullible a stage of life.
Yes, let men welcome 'men-who-are-alienated-from-their-sex' into their toilets, locker rooms, sport competitions, prisons, universities and parliaments. Let them. And thank you Mariah and Cori, and so many others, for helping me work my way through this, while all the while my son undergoes chemical castration, in the hands of WPATH practitioners
OMG. So sorry to hear that, Mark. I’m glad you’re finding resources that help you understand what’s happening. And I hope that your son eventually does too. How tragic.
I will state categorically that men care more about performance on the court, field, rink, or pool, than they do about how someone dresses.
It’s important to emphasize, as you have done, that this question isn’t a new one. I’m old enough to remember Renee Richards. It is also important to flip this issue back to men as Cori and others are now doing. Accommodating and accepting gender non-confirming males should be dealt with by men whether it is being more accepting in sports or spaces. The Real Science of Sports podcast is wonderful. It is worthwhile to spend some time going through their archives and listen to the podcasts dealing with the IOC, Caster Semenya and males with DSDs as well as their discussions on the trans athletes issue. And finally a must read in addition to Helen Joyce is Unfair Play by Sharron Davies. She took a deep dive into the issue.
Yes, thanks.
Why not the whole “wrong body” concept as the very taproot foundational error?
Yes. Seems you could count foundational errors a few different ways.
Did I send you that fascinating study on how trans and cis people think of identity: as a mental thing versus a physical thing? But alas, Descartes was wrong. We are just one entity that is made of our whole body including our brains, hormones, organs, which are all made of a plethora of tiny cells and chemicals. (Cogsci study is an on and off hobby for me.)
Yes, thanks, here it is: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-025-93174-3.epdf?sharing_token=s8Kt6jutH5dhToqAM7_nstRgN0jAjWel9jnR3ZoTv0MA3CCIpDOsknlvvbhIkJ3eBqY4244DDAb4bpfOnDFr1Ps0o7-feiNWb0zEi0ftw_x11_hm_FS16vcplBEjqu-vfxLrbV9i4KD8P2YXyGmBQoA7wB_9P-FR6s1E2Yglwr8%3D
Are there any examples of male athletes who are champions transitioning to girls sports?
Thousands of trophies, more than a million dollars have been taken from women in this say. See hecheated.org.
This is the way.
Be in reality “zero competition”????
Genius. Just genius. I can’t wait to try out this argument with the next person who accuses me of being a transphobe.
All I care about is that it is no longer our problem. If men want to take up the problem. they can. I don't want to feel in any way responsible for persuading or encouraging men to take up the problem because then it's back to being my problem.
Sure. These men are talking to men and boys. That's the beauty of it.
I’ve said this other ways and don’t want to repost my own writing but “will athletes welcome girly boys” is precisely the point of female sexual mimicry. What other males say and do is irrelevant.
A key objective of men imitating women - sexual mimicry - is precisely to never have to compete with men in sports, in work, or for emotional and sexual fulfillment with women.
They don’t want to because it unmasks the fiction that they are female.
Then at least it calls the bluff.
💯!! It's women who continue to, like in Scotland, fight for women and girls (with a few notable exceptions) at great cost. Men can absolutely help by opening their locker rooms and other spaces to "gender nonconforming" boys and men with intention and tolerance.
This is exactly what I have been saying for a while now. These boys have been lied to, given horrible advice, and now they think this is where they belong - in girls' sports (and spaces). Of course, that is wrong. The remedy is exactly what Cori says Let the boys and coaches on male teams explicitly invite girly" boys and masculine boys who just think they are girls (it being more of a mindset for some then a problem with masculinity) onto their teams and into their locker rooms. Let's show what real tolerance and empathy means. Rather than lying to boys by pretending they are girls, we can simply let them know they are welcome to play sports with other boys, because, no matter how effeminate they may be, and no matter what they think of themselves, they are, after all, boys.
Not sure about the "right to play". In high school, the better you were, the more playing time you got.
And vice versa.
It wasn't "participation trophy" time. You had to earn your spot.
College is ten times that competitive. Probably 10 times 10.
So, sure, you can play on that team. You have a "right" to. If you're good enough.
The boys and men who are competing in girls' and women's athletic events are not at all "girly"! They are not at all feminine or effeminate. They have almost always already participated in male athletic competitions, sometimes for several years in high school and in college, but (this is really notable) they have not usually been very successful when competing against other boys or men.
We really need to have studies undertaken about these males to get an idea of how many of them actually think they are "trans women" ("born in the wrong body") versus how many are "just taking a piss", as the British expression would have it, motivated by a desire to win (which they were not able to do when competing against other males) and/or a desire to best and humiliate women and/or some other other yet-to-be hypothesized motivation.
i really wonder how much of it comes down to just hating women and wanting to abuse them in any way possible. it scares me.