I hope people on this page can deal with the fact that I will refer to transwomen and ciswomen rather than something like "men in dresses" or whatever. I'm trying to talk to people on both sides of this controversy, and I don't want to go through the hassle of changing my language depending on who I'm talking to. (Particularly since I strive to say things which I think are of interest to both sides)
The research I've done indicates that very few transwomen win sports competitions, so the claim that they are depriving ciswomen of trophies is a myth. This is because these competitions have strict rules involving levels of testosterone that are somewhat effective at leveling the playing field. Transwomen undergo a hormone replacement therapy that weakens their (formerly male) muscles, among many other changes. This is why many trans activists claim that transwomen are no longer biologically male. You don't have to accept this argument to acknowledge the fact that transwomen are significantly weaker physically than the cismen they used to be.
The rules governing transwomen in women sports are not as effective as they should be, but they are NOT based on the widely held belief among trans activists that anyone can become trans just by saying that they are. In some sports, testosterone levels are not sufficient to level the playing field, and many authorities on this topic (Include trans runner and medical physicist Joanna Harper) are insisting that the rules do need to be stricter for those sports. This is one reason that Lia Thomas was banned from Olympic swimming. A lot of trans activists have protested this ban , but this is one sign that the system is working, even if it isn't perfect. The trans activist nut jobs do not write the rules for athletic competitions. they are written by committees that include both trans and cis scientists and athletes. More on this here:
Whether Transwomen should be permitted in women's locker rooms is another issue that I am not dealing with here. I'm still thinking about that issue, and listening to the arguments.
As a woman who has competed in amateur long distance running, I appreciate your position, but I can't sit with the descriptor "cis." This term conflates sex and feelings in a way that makes women a subset of our own sex-class. I cannot outrun an equal sized, equally trained, same age male, regardless of that person's identity or hormone treatments. I understand the reasoning that some trans identified males have that hormone treatments and gonad removal constitute a biological/cellular sex change, actual sex and fundamental sex attributes like skeletal advantages, heart size, fast twitch fibers, etc, have not changed.
Adult males with a trans identity are welcome to compete in sports, in their sex division. No one is banned. Choices have consequences - this is life. An adult male can't have his cake and eat mine, too.
Thanks for your thoughtful reply. I agree that we shouldn’t conflate sex and feelings, which is what many trans advocates are advocating. But there is biological evidence that trans people really do have biologically feminine brains. this means that it is possible to be trans and not know it, and to think you are trans and not be trans. Robert Sapolsky a prominent neurobiologist from Stanford University, describe some of that work here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QScpDGqwsQ
I use the prefix “cis” only when talking about this issue, and it need not imply nor deny that cis women are really women. A lightning bug is not really a bug, but it is still the correct name for the soft bodied beetle with a glowing abdomen. I use the term because it is the shortest way to make the distinction when you’re writing an article like this, and because I don’t want to start a fight about an irrelevant side issue of labels every time I write about this topic.
I can respect not wanting to start a conflict on this post (or anywhere) on the topic, though if you are interested, I'm happy to respectfully discuss in DM. To me, it's not an irrelevant side issue, but core.
I've got no problems discussing this issue, either privately or publicly. I just don't want this to be the only issue that ever gets discussed. One of the worst things about the Wokerati is that they spend too much time talking about words and other symbols and not enough time about the things being symbolized. I think that's a distraction. It reminds me of the US/Vietnam peace talks where they spent the first week arguing about the shape of the table, before they ever talked about anything else.
I just put up an essay explaining what I think are the philosophical roots of this controversy. You might find it interesting.
Thanks for this.And since this deals with definitions, we should recognize that the trans ideology has changed our language and deliberately so in order to gain power. Confusing the public is a good way to gain power as well .
And in my view, gender dysphoria is simply a fad like bulimia. Anybody who is complaining of being confused about their sex is obviously having a mental problem. Gender dysphoria is a made up problem that then calls for medicalization and makes a huge profit for some parts of our society. Certainly, the medical industrial complex and the Pharma complex is having a bonanza here.
I've seen this claim about a "medical bonanza" in many places. I am suspicious of it because a lot of people makes a reflex assumption that if something bad is happening, there must be a rich cartel somewhere making money off of it. Does anybody know what percentage of medical industry profits come from gender affirming surgery? I'll bet it's less than a tenth of 1%, which makes it unlikely they would go to any trouble or expense to increase their profit to such a small degree. I think it more likely that this is just a meme that has captured peoples imaginations, and memes are just mindless mental patterns that spread through populations without any long-term plans of their own.
"We can still respect their beliefs and identities."
Can you, though? In the end this comes down to telling people, "No, we DON'T respect your beliefs and identities. Your beliefs are delusional and your identity is a lie, and we reject them."
I hear you and probably share your anger but I'm tapping into compassion for people as the fragile, flawed human beings that we all are.
We all have beliefs. Some (including some religious beliefs) seem quite wild to me, but I defend people's rights to have them as long as they don't restrict others' rights.
And identities are important - my identities as an athlete and writer are important to me, for instance.
If someone holds a different belief or identity from me (as MANY people, from many religions, do) I don't need to confront them directly.
I want to respect people, and calling them delusional does not seem respectful.
Instead, I'm calling out the truth about sex and women's rights and trying to deal with my anger constructively while keeping an open heart to other humans.
And I'm not criticizing you, either! :-) Just elaborating.
Having come from a childhood in Nazi Germany, I know a bully when I see one. Bullies are far from fragile , and I will never respect a bully. Should I defend them as to their rights in their beliefs? There is a time when kindness is not the answer.
Totally agree that kindness is often not the answer.
I'm not defending bullies.
There's a difference between trans activists who harass, bully, intrude, invade, etc. (these people are almost all male, ironically demonstrating male aggression and privilege) and normal people caught up in the trans mania who are unhappy, confused, mentally ill, autistic, duped, gay, or, in the case of many girls: sexually harassed or abused into feeling so vulnerable that they want to not be girls or women anymore, as Abigail Shrier writes about in Irreversible Harm, and decide that they're nonbinary instead.
This latter group of people need help, sympathy, information, and alternatives. Not condemnation, judgment, or to be told they're delusional or liars, if only because it won't help.
Also, when I step away from my anger (for my own mental health) I can see that their life experience is a bit like mine, as a girl-loving, gender nonconforming kid. (See I Would Have Been Trans: https://strongerwomen.substack.com/p/i-would-have-been-trans)
This could have happened to me. So I identify with their plight as gender-nonconforming people who are, in their own way, harmed by the same sexist sex roles, as we used to call them, as I was. I hope many of them find a way to accept their bodies and propensities as they are - and the high rate of detransitioners points in that direction.
I think the fact that there has been a huge increase in “ gender dysphoria “ especially in girls has more to do with social media than with true discomfort in puberty. It’s a kind of hysteria , which young girls in particular are prone to.
The rush to “ gender affirming care” is not helping kids who have had trauma or suffer from autism or other mental health problems.
I appreciate your effort to be compassionate and accepting, but unfortunately those are ideals that advocates of transgenderism have been cynically exploiting, and now we're forced to choose between telling the truth and being "kind."
This is the heart of the problem: How can you respect the belief and self-professed identity of a man who says he is a woman AND also tell him he's not allowed in the girls' room?
(You may criticize me and tell me I'm wrong and I won't melt down or claim you're trying to genocide me.)
I don’t respect a male’s belief that he’s a female or vice versa. I respect their right to dress and present however they please. I will not treat a person with disrespect as a human being. I will not make fun of someone or be rude or mean to them. I respect everyone’s right to believe whatever they want (even if it is nonsense, and I think a lot of stuff is nonsense including religion, astrology, homeopathy, veganism etc etc ) but I do not have to pretend I believe it.
But if someone thinks my adherence to reality and science is being mean or taking their rights, they are delusional and that’s their problem not mine.
Hi Eric, I see this as a difficult spiritual/personal/political challenge and I don't always live up to my own ideal - and yes, sure, let's disagree, agreeably! - but here are some considerations: 1) I want to keep an open heart period, b/c it's good for my heart; 2) many gender adherents have been indoctrinated into it; 3) many are young, mentally ill or autistic; 4) many change their minds - not due to harassment, I'd guess, but patient counter-messages; 5) boundary-setting can indeed coexist with respect: "I respect your right to define yourself as you please, but it's not relevant to me right now, because this locker room/sports team/prison is just for females, and truth is, you're not female." IOW I don't have to go along with their belief system or identity at my own or others' cost or peril.
There's a critical distinction between respecting someone's RIGHT to believe in or identify as something, and actually respecting that person's belief and professed identity. Unfortunately, transgender activists demand the latter, not the former. That is, they will tell you that unless you respect their beliefs and identities by uncritically affirming a man's belief that he is a woman AND letting him into the girls' room, you are being hurtful, mean, rude, disrespectful, bigoted, transphobic, and harmful.
I think the three of us are probably in the same place -- a realization that you CAN'T actually "still respect their beliefs and identities." (I am empathetic enough to recognize that this is an easier proposition for me, since I'm not encumbered by a gentle soul like the one that comes through in Mariah's writing.)
Hi Eric, Yes, you're referring to trans activists, and I do differentiate them from other people who identify as trans. Still, I think all humans deserve respect.
As my friend Kimberly says, "Behind every jerk is a sad story."
Otherwise, what could account for such behaviors? People who are full of love, joy, and peace do not abuse others.
"...not encumbered by a gentle soul" - lol. I'll take the compliment. :-)
Trans activists are the least respectful people as seen when they encounter women’s issues! Why should the rest of respect bullies , even violent ones?
I can appreciate the Yosemite story, I like hearing about comparables to Mitchfest.
The divisiveness created by men within Feminist and Lesbian leadership is one of the saddest stories, unappreciated, that I know.
I loved gong to a gay male-only camp called Timberfell in TN, over several decades. There’s nothing like walking naked through the woods in a rainstorm or with your spouse at night. That magic is so elementary and fragile, it’s horrible to hear of it being torn away from women’s hands.
It goes back to another bullshit concept I head repeated by Joyce Carol Oates today. “It’s a minority of a minority.” To paraphrase, “so few people”. It only takes one to utterly disrupt a festival. Permanently.
I remember hearing about Radical Faeries gatherings in the late 70s and 80s in CA. I thought: Cool: Gay men who claim a fairy-like personality or style are creating places to celebrate themselves and each other. Now Wikipedia puts the emphasis on queer rather than gay male, and tells me these gatherings are open to "all gender identities." A good thing or a bad thing, I wonder, from most gay men's perspective? Or just Wikipedia writers policing language?
Wikipedia gay-related materials are edited by trans and/or queer as far as I can tell because there is systematic erasure any reference to gay and what actually happened in gay life and with gay publications. Complete fabrications. I didn’t live through Lesbian history so I don’t feel good commenting there.
What I do know is the ephemera of the period - flyers, zines, newsletters, posters, travel guides, bar papers, never used the term queer in place of gay until the late 90’s, when a lot of gay male leaders were dead and buried from HIV. The faeries were always a gay female exclusive movement. “Radical” but their leadership like all gay leadership died. I knew Jim Knepner who was a member and one of the first gay archivists, in LA.
I’m peculiar because I never understood the Faerie movement. I have the physique of Zeus so there is also a cognitive dissonance. The only faerie I was interested in was Bottom, but that’s a tasteless Shakespeare and gay sex joke.
I’m surprised actually that a Lesbian group never bought out Timberfell or other private venues to run around in what I call “Naked Wordhip” for a long weekend. It’s wonderful in the summer, and good security and importantly a geodesic domed fully stocked bar and dance area in the woods.
A lot of gay men, faeries alike, are petrified at being naked in front of women or seeing a naked woman, a downer in more ways than one. [Never take a shower in a Northern European Gym. And don’t stay in tiny resort hotels with Saunas in Sweden or Germany witn a client team: shudder, the stories I have.]
Ha - love the history and I too am horrified by historical propaganda on Wikipedia. As for "I’m surprised actually that a Lesbian group never bought out Timberfell or other private venues to run around in what I call “Naked Worship” for a long weekend" -- who said we didn't? :-)
The "it's only a few" argument is manipulative and dismissive, and it moves the goalposts (so many logical fallacies in one fell swoop!). And even fewer than "a few" can disrupt an entire department or organization or institution.
If there's only ONE person in an organization who has a "trans" child, that can color the entire place. Suddenly everyone else has to proclaim fealty to this ideology; otherwise they risk being shunned and even losing their jobs. I think that's what's happening in a lot of workplaces. It means the ideology becomes even more entrenched.
People should always have available a picture and character model of an adult free-range trans to ensure illustration of the conversation context is clear.
Exactly. The "it's only a few" defense ignores or minimizes the lived reality of women who need, deserve, and demand all-female spaces. You're right - it only takes one male to utterly disrupt a women's space.
I'm thinking of a new pronoun for men putting on woman face and claiming to be female....himher. Not sure that just himer works but shorter is better. Have to sleep on this.
Don't have anything yet for women being male but it's overwhelming men who are the problem.
I don’t know who coined the phrase but first time I saw it I thought, PERFECT! Doing my part to help put it out there.
I doubt my “himer” is going to have any legs. Doesn’t carry the same emotional charge and it’s not self-explanatory. Wanted a single word that identified a him that wanted to pass as a her.
After sleeping on it I think “himer” works. I wanted a pronoun that calls out a male who is trying to pass himself off as female; a him trying to pass as a her…….himer. it'll likely never catch on and is for my own amusement in trying to deal with an utterly absurd situation.
Ironically, by responding to an EO very specifically and deliberately titled "Keeping Men out of Women's Sports" with headlines about "trans athletes" and "transgender women", the media is admitting that these athletes are men.
Helen Joyce: People who have irreversibly trans'ed their own children will "fight to the death" to maintain "their own sanity and self-respect," understandably.
Terrific post, bringing clarity to news media muddle, though how ridiculous that it remains necessary to do this. Loved the reminder of Sweet Honey in the Rock, Holly Near, and Rhiannon. Those were the days!! I have restacked.
It boggles my mind that the media continues to mislead people and that you have to educate people, "males are described as trans or transgender women. No wonder the public is confused". I appreciate your "translation" so that I can share with all the confused people I know.
You can’t say, “Girls and Women Celebrate New Rules: Female Sports for Females Only” because then you agree with the bad guys… you have to join a “side” and believe every single thing that “your side” promotes or you’re a heretic.
I hope people on this page can deal with the fact that I will refer to transwomen and ciswomen rather than something like "men in dresses" or whatever. I'm trying to talk to people on both sides of this controversy, and I don't want to go through the hassle of changing my language depending on who I'm talking to. (Particularly since I strive to say things which I think are of interest to both sides)
The research I've done indicates that very few transwomen win sports competitions, so the claim that they are depriving ciswomen of trophies is a myth. This is because these competitions have strict rules involving levels of testosterone that are somewhat effective at leveling the playing field. Transwomen undergo a hormone replacement therapy that weakens their (formerly male) muscles, among many other changes. This is why many trans activists claim that transwomen are no longer biologically male. You don't have to accept this argument to acknowledge the fact that transwomen are significantly weaker physically than the cismen they used to be.
The rules governing transwomen in women sports are not as effective as they should be, but they are NOT based on the widely held belief among trans activists that anyone can become trans just by saying that they are. In some sports, testosterone levels are not sufficient to level the playing field, and many authorities on this topic (Include trans runner and medical physicist Joanna Harper) are insisting that the rules do need to be stricter for those sports. This is one reason that Lia Thomas was banned from Olympic swimming. A lot of trans activists have protested this ban , but this is one sign that the system is working, even if it isn't perfect. The trans activist nut jobs do not write the rules for athletic competitions. they are written by committees that include both trans and cis scientists and athletes. More on this here:
https://teedrockwell.substack.com/p/the-possiblyinescapable-dilemma-of
Whether Transwomen should be permitted in women's locker rooms is another issue that I am not dealing with here. I'm still thinking about that issue, and listening to the arguments.
As a woman who has competed in amateur long distance running, I appreciate your position, but I can't sit with the descriptor "cis." This term conflates sex and feelings in a way that makes women a subset of our own sex-class. I cannot outrun an equal sized, equally trained, same age male, regardless of that person's identity or hormone treatments. I understand the reasoning that some trans identified males have that hormone treatments and gonad removal constitute a biological/cellular sex change, actual sex and fundamental sex attributes like skeletal advantages, heart size, fast twitch fibers, etc, have not changed.
Adult males with a trans identity are welcome to compete in sports, in their sex division. No one is banned. Choices have consequences - this is life. An adult male can't have his cake and eat mine, too.
Thanks for your thoughtful reply. I agree that we shouldn’t conflate sex and feelings, which is what many trans advocates are advocating. But there is biological evidence that trans people really do have biologically feminine brains. this means that it is possible to be trans and not know it, and to think you are trans and not be trans. Robert Sapolsky a prominent neurobiologist from Stanford University, describe some of that work here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QScpDGqwsQ
I use the prefix “cis” only when talking about this issue, and it need not imply nor deny that cis women are really women. A lightning bug is not really a bug, but it is still the correct name for the soft bodied beetle with a glowing abdomen. I use the term because it is the shortest way to make the distinction when you’re writing an article like this, and because I don’t want to start a fight about an irrelevant side issue of labels every time I write about this topic.
I can respect not wanting to start a conflict on this post (or anywhere) on the topic, though if you are interested, I'm happy to respectfully discuss in DM. To me, it's not an irrelevant side issue, but core.
I've got no problems discussing this issue, either privately or publicly. I just don't want this to be the only issue that ever gets discussed. One of the worst things about the Wokerati is that they spend too much time talking about words and other symbols and not enough time about the things being symbolized. I think that's a distraction. It reminds me of the US/Vietnam peace talks where they spent the first week arguing about the shape of the table, before they ever talked about anything else.
I just put up an essay explaining what I think are the philosophical roots of this controversy. You might find it interesting.
https://teedrockwell.substack.com/p/aristotle-wittgenstein-and-gender
"An adult male can't have his cake and eat mine, too." - love it, Yvette N.
Thanks for this.And since this deals with definitions, we should recognize that the trans ideology has changed our language and deliberately so in order to gain power. Confusing the public is a good way to gain power as well .
And in my view, gender dysphoria is simply a fad like bulimia. Anybody who is complaining of being confused about their sex is obviously having a mental problem. Gender dysphoria is a made up problem that then calls for medicalization and makes a huge profit for some parts of our society. Certainly, the medical industrial complex and the Pharma complex is having a bonanza here.
I've seen this claim about a "medical bonanza" in many places. I am suspicious of it because a lot of people makes a reflex assumption that if something bad is happening, there must be a rich cartel somewhere making money off of it. Does anybody know what percentage of medical industry profits come from gender affirming surgery? I'll bet it's less than a tenth of 1%, which makes it unlikely they would go to any trouble or expense to increase their profit to such a small degree. I think it more likely that this is just a meme that has captured peoples imaginations, and memes are just mindless mental patterns that spread through populations without any long-term plans of their own.
The real issue is that this has to be said at all
I never thought I'd see the day that a real woman would have to fight for the right to be woman
"We can still respect their beliefs and identities."
Can you, though? In the end this comes down to telling people, "No, we DON'T respect your beliefs and identities. Your beliefs are delusional and your identity is a lie, and we reject them."
Affirming a lie is not kind! You don’t affirm someone who claims to be Napoleon by saluting him. You don’t put a bulimic on a diet .
I agree. I think respect is different from affirmation.
I hear you and probably share your anger but I'm tapping into compassion for people as the fragile, flawed human beings that we all are.
We all have beliefs. Some (including some religious beliefs) seem quite wild to me, but I defend people's rights to have them as long as they don't restrict others' rights.
And identities are important - my identities as an athlete and writer are important to me, for instance.
If someone holds a different belief or identity from me (as MANY people, from many religions, do) I don't need to confront them directly.
I want to respect people, and calling them delusional does not seem respectful.
Instead, I'm calling out the truth about sex and women's rights and trying to deal with my anger constructively while keeping an open heart to other humans.
And I'm not criticizing you, either! :-) Just elaborating.
Having come from a childhood in Nazi Germany, I know a bully when I see one. Bullies are far from fragile , and I will never respect a bully. Should I defend them as to their rights in their beliefs? There is a time when kindness is not the answer.
Wow, your childhood. Yikes.
Totally agree that kindness is often not the answer.
I'm not defending bullies.
There's a difference between trans activists who harass, bully, intrude, invade, etc. (these people are almost all male, ironically demonstrating male aggression and privilege) and normal people caught up in the trans mania who are unhappy, confused, mentally ill, autistic, duped, gay, or, in the case of many girls: sexually harassed or abused into feeling so vulnerable that they want to not be girls or women anymore, as Abigail Shrier writes about in Irreversible Harm, and decide that they're nonbinary instead.
This latter group of people need help, sympathy, information, and alternatives. Not condemnation, judgment, or to be told they're delusional or liars, if only because it won't help.
Also, when I step away from my anger (for my own mental health) I can see that their life experience is a bit like mine, as a girl-loving, gender nonconforming kid. (See I Would Have Been Trans: https://strongerwomen.substack.com/p/i-would-have-been-trans)
This could have happened to me. So I identify with their plight as gender-nonconforming people who are, in their own way, harmed by the same sexist sex roles, as we used to call them, as I was. I hope many of them find a way to accept their bodies and propensities as they are - and the high rate of detransitioners points in that direction.
I think the fact that there has been a huge increase in “ gender dysphoria “ especially in girls has more to do with social media than with true discomfort in puberty. It’s a kind of hysteria , which young girls in particular are prone to.
The rush to “ gender affirming care” is not helping kids who have had trauma or suffer from autism or other mental health problems.
Totally agree. Social contagion. The spike is mostly girls. A lot of unpleasant things happen to girls at puberty. No wonder they want to opt out.
I appreciate your effort to be compassionate and accepting, but unfortunately those are ideals that advocates of transgenderism have been cynically exploiting, and now we're forced to choose between telling the truth and being "kind."
This is the heart of the problem: How can you respect the belief and self-professed identity of a man who says he is a woman AND also tell him he's not allowed in the girls' room?
(You may criticize me and tell me I'm wrong and I won't melt down or claim you're trying to genocide me.)
I don’t respect a male’s belief that he’s a female or vice versa. I respect their right to dress and present however they please. I will not treat a person with disrespect as a human being. I will not make fun of someone or be rude or mean to them. I respect everyone’s right to believe whatever they want (even if it is nonsense, and I think a lot of stuff is nonsense including religion, astrology, homeopathy, veganism etc etc ) but I do not have to pretend I believe it.
But if someone thinks my adherence to reality and science is being mean or taking their rights, they are delusional and that’s their problem not mine.
Touché, Donna!
As a reader so aptly put it at the NYT a few years ago (a rare example of a trans-critical comment not being censored by the NYT):
"Liberty allows you to pretend whatever you like about yourself, but not to compel others to do so as well."
Missed your comment earlier this month. Yes. That’s a succinct way to put it.
I like this addendum to my in-progress philosophy. Thanks, Donna.
Hi Eric, I see this as a difficult spiritual/personal/political challenge and I don't always live up to my own ideal - and yes, sure, let's disagree, agreeably! - but here are some considerations: 1) I want to keep an open heart period, b/c it's good for my heart; 2) many gender adherents have been indoctrinated into it; 3) many are young, mentally ill or autistic; 4) many change their minds - not due to harassment, I'd guess, but patient counter-messages; 5) boundary-setting can indeed coexist with respect: "I respect your right to define yourself as you please, but it's not relevant to me right now, because this locker room/sports team/prison is just for females, and truth is, you're not female." IOW I don't have to go along with their belief system or identity at my own or others' cost or peril.
Mariah and Donna,
There's a critical distinction between respecting someone's RIGHT to believe in or identify as something, and actually respecting that person's belief and professed identity. Unfortunately, transgender activists demand the latter, not the former. That is, they will tell you that unless you respect their beliefs and identities by uncritically affirming a man's belief that he is a woman AND letting him into the girls' room, you are being hurtful, mean, rude, disrespectful, bigoted, transphobic, and harmful.
I think the three of us are probably in the same place -- a realization that you CAN'T actually "still respect their beliefs and identities." (I am empathetic enough to recognize that this is an easier proposition for me, since I'm not encumbered by a gentle soul like the one that comes through in Mariah's writing.)
Hi Eric, Yes, you're referring to trans activists, and I do differentiate them from other people who identify as trans. Still, I think all humans deserve respect.
As my friend Kimberly says, "Behind every jerk is a sad story."
Otherwise, what could account for such behaviors? People who are full of love, joy, and peace do not abuse others.
"...not encumbered by a gentle soul" - lol. I'll take the compliment. :-)
Trans activists are the least respectful people as seen when they encounter women’s issues! Why should the rest of respect bullies , even violent ones?
Please see my long note to you above.
Another stirring article, thanks.
I can appreciate the Yosemite story, I like hearing about comparables to Mitchfest.
The divisiveness created by men within Feminist and Lesbian leadership is one of the saddest stories, unappreciated, that I know.
I loved gong to a gay male-only camp called Timberfell in TN, over several decades. There’s nothing like walking naked through the woods in a rainstorm or with your spouse at night. That magic is so elementary and fragile, it’s horrible to hear of it being torn away from women’s hands.
It goes back to another bullshit concept I head repeated by Joyce Carol Oates today. “It’s a minority of a minority.” To paraphrase, “so few people”. It only takes one to utterly disrupt a festival. Permanently.
I remember hearing about Radical Faeries gatherings in the late 70s and 80s in CA. I thought: Cool: Gay men who claim a fairy-like personality or style are creating places to celebrate themselves and each other. Now Wikipedia puts the emphasis on queer rather than gay male, and tells me these gatherings are open to "all gender identities." A good thing or a bad thing, I wonder, from most gay men's perspective? Or just Wikipedia writers policing language?
Wikipedia gay-related materials are edited by trans and/or queer as far as I can tell because there is systematic erasure any reference to gay and what actually happened in gay life and with gay publications. Complete fabrications. I didn’t live through Lesbian history so I don’t feel good commenting there.
What I do know is the ephemera of the period - flyers, zines, newsletters, posters, travel guides, bar papers, never used the term queer in place of gay until the late 90’s, when a lot of gay male leaders were dead and buried from HIV. The faeries were always a gay female exclusive movement. “Radical” but their leadership like all gay leadership died. I knew Jim Knepner who was a member and one of the first gay archivists, in LA.
I’m peculiar because I never understood the Faerie movement. I have the physique of Zeus so there is also a cognitive dissonance. The only faerie I was interested in was Bottom, but that’s a tasteless Shakespeare and gay sex joke.
I’m surprised actually that a Lesbian group never bought out Timberfell or other private venues to run around in what I call “Naked Wordhip” for a long weekend. It’s wonderful in the summer, and good security and importantly a geodesic domed fully stocked bar and dance area in the woods.
A lot of gay men, faeries alike, are petrified at being naked in front of women or seeing a naked woman, a downer in more ways than one. [Never take a shower in a Northern European Gym. And don’t stay in tiny resort hotels with Saunas in Sweden or Germany witn a client team: shudder, the stories I have.]
Ha - love the history and I too am horrified by historical propaganda on Wikipedia. As for "I’m surprised actually that a Lesbian group never bought out Timberfell or other private venues to run around in what I call “Naked Worship” for a long weekend" -- who said we didn't? :-)
Yay! That’s cheerful.
The "it's only a few" argument is manipulative and dismissive, and it moves the goalposts (so many logical fallacies in one fell swoop!). And even fewer than "a few" can disrupt an entire department or organization or institution.
If there's only ONE person in an organization who has a "trans" child, that can color the entire place. Suddenly everyone else has to proclaim fealty to this ideology; otherwise they risk being shunned and even losing their jobs. I think that's what's happening in a lot of workplaces. It means the ideology becomes even more entrenched.
People should always have available a picture and character model of an adult free-range trans to ensure illustration of the conversation context is clear.
Exactly. The "it's only a few" defense ignores or minimizes the lived reality of women who need, deserve, and demand all-female spaces. You're right - it only takes one male to utterly disrupt a women's space.
Cool about the gay male camp!
I'm thinking of a new pronoun for men putting on woman face and claiming to be female....himher. Not sure that just himer works but shorter is better. Have to sleep on this.
Don't have anything yet for women being male but it's overwhelming men who are the problem.
I love this term I've been seeing more and more lately: "putting on woman face." It perfectly captures this phenomenon!
I don’t know who coined the phrase but first time I saw it I thought, PERFECT! Doing my part to help put it out there.
I doubt my “himer” is going to have any legs. Doesn’t carry the same emotional charge and it’s not self-explanatory. Wanted a single word that identified a him that wanted to pass as a her.
How about feminine man? Pronoun: he/him.
After sleeping on it I think “himer” works. I wanted a pronoun that calls out a male who is trying to pass himself off as female; a him trying to pass as a her…….himer. it'll likely never catch on and is for my own amusement in trying to deal with an utterly absurd situation.
Ironically, by responding to an EO very specifically and deliberately titled "Keeping Men out of Women's Sports" with headlines about "trans athletes" and "transgender women", the media is admitting that these athletes are men.
Ha, yes, good point!
This is helpful to understand a complex, and complicated situation. Thanks, Mariah.
So glad to hear it. Thank you!
Interesting interview:
https://x.com/flaaaaalala/status/1888433004411838921?s=46&t=U7laPY1hHEa798qtlcpDpA
Yes, thanks, Dave.
Helen Joyce: People who have irreversibly trans'ed their own children will "fight to the death" to maintain "their own sanity and self-respect," understandably.
Terrific post, bringing clarity to news media muddle, though how ridiculous that it remains necessary to do this. Loved the reminder of Sweet Honey in the Rock, Holly Near, and Rhiannon. Those were the days!! I have restacked.
:-) Thanks, Susan. And Gwen Avery, Ferron, Chris Williamson, so many others.
❤️❤️❤️
It boggles my mind that the media continues to mislead people and that you have to educate people, "males are described as trans or transgender women. No wonder the public is confused". I appreciate your "translation" so that I can share with all the confused people I know.
Thank you! Glad it might be helpful.
You can’t say, “Girls and Women Celebrate New Rules: Female Sports for Females Only” because then you agree with the bad guys… you have to join a “side” and believe every single thing that “your side” promotes or you’re a heretic.
Yeah. Tough to be a Democratic feminist these days, weirdly! But maybe the political world is not as binary as it seems. 😀
🎯🎯🎯
Oooh love the art!!
Thanks, Donna. I've always loved that Picasso. Such freedom, bliss, and yes, female athleticism! Fun to try my hand at another version.
Outstanding post. Thanks for sharing the West Coast Women’s Music Festival story.
Yes, that's why we need to speak and write using accurate, sex-based language ourselves.
Right. Men. And boys. That’s all.