Sex is not on a spectrum. It is not a choice. If any man who says he “identifies” as female can compete against women and girls, why do we have separate male and female events? Why should there be any women’s events if any man can do them better than the women? Why have any female sports where size, strength and speed determine the winner if males are welcomed into female competition? We could “let” women compete in the men’s events if they want to. The men just replace the women in women’s sports. Doesn’t that seem fair? Isn’t that what we have already done?
The real question is - why are people policing girls and women's bodies? This is causing panic amongst trans kids and CIS gender kids alike, all because of a handful of trans kids playing school sport (maybe 25 nationwide, SheWon #s are proven false). We already have meaningful restrictions, which is why there are so few examples any anti-trans people ever use (Lia Thomas, CT track kids). The rules are working to keep sport safe, fair and inclusive. The trans bans have little actual impact (because there are so few trans athletes), but create a culture of fear, hate and scrutiny of girls' and women's bodies in sport.
All of this is far more damaging to girls than you are realizing. The top reason girls drop out of sport at twice the rate of boys in adolescence is body image concerns. Right now, girls are being "outed" as trans when they are just tomboys trying to play. This anti-trans panic is telling girls everywhere - be feminine or be ashamed. I know many people mean well and want to protect girls and women, trust me, this is NOT the way to do it. Work for changes to coaching education, advocate for safe sport training and better resources. Anything but this madness. This is the result of trans bans: https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/08/us/natalie-cline-controversy-student-gender-social-media-posts
Please tell me why you say you are a woman? I see the “trans woman” picture with his maleness obvious as he crosses the tape. I know the biological difference and reasons why it is unfair for you to compete against women, remind me why you say you are woman?
Coverage of an incident exploded on T.V. and online May 8th as if it was the opening salvo of World War III. It was reported that a security guard questioned the sex identity of a person, Ansley Baker, who was using the women's bathroom at the Liberty Hotel in Boston. Ansley Baker, who looks more like a man than many men do, sports a short crew haircut, is six feet tall and favors stereotypical men's clothing. She also looks like she has a five o'clock shadow on her upper lip. Is she on testosterone? Ansley's companion, Elizabeth Victor, barely comes up to Ansley's shoulder making an even more suggestive contrast in their physical appearance. Of course Ansley Baker has to be aware of her own staged male performance. Looking at her, one would quickly assume she was a man. Still, this couple has publicized the incidence as if they were the victims of a mass murderer and the local media is playing it to the hilt. Although Ansley takes pains to look like a man, she is outraged at being mistaken for one. (Take a look at her online). Pity the poor security guard who has now been suspended from his job when he was only trying to protect the women who reported seeing a man in the Women's room. This is happening only because trans "women" insisting on using women's rooms have put many women on edge for fear of encountering a man in their bathroom. The actions of Ansley Baker and Elizabeth Victor look like nothing more than a scam to sue the hotel for big money - or a P.R. stunt to promote transgender goals. Maybe both. Why else go into a Ladies Room in Drag? This is a cruel, crude and cynical performance done knowing that people would be tricked into thinking that Ansley was a man and react accordingly.
The Attorney General of Massachusetts, Andrea Campbell (who is sympathetic to transgenderism), confirmed that they're processing complaints about the incident. The Massachusetts Commission Against Discrimination did not comment on any ongoing investigations.
Betsy, I (a cis woman) have been approached by security, given hard looks from people inside bathrooms, and had parents visibly pull their children away from the entrance when they watched me going into a public multi-stall bathroom - so that they wouldn't go in at the same time as me. In some of those instances (over many years), I do not know whether the response or hesitation was because they thought I was a man, or because they thought I was a dyke. Either way, they clearly thought I was either out of place, or some sort of danger to children (I was neither), or both, simply because of my appearance. I find it very presumptuous for someone to assume I don't belong there because of the way I look, after a brief glance in my direction. Are you suggesting that those of us with more masculine features or dress should alter our presentation in order to not have someone question our gender as we go about our day in public places?
I'm not suggesting, I'm stating that trans female impersonators insistence on invading women's bathrooms have put women and girls on edge and introduced a level of anxiety when having to use a public bathroom that wasn't there before. If Ansley Baker goes to some trouble to impersonate a male then she should deal with the reaction she gets and not play dumb. Women have a right to be concerned for their safety and the safety of their children rather than be condemned for being alert to possible threats in their environment. It is a routine tactic of trans terrorists; i.e. trying to make females feel guilty for for wanting to avoid being being harmed; for wanting privacy from men. Obviously, we have a difference of opinion on this point. Beyond whether women have a right to protect themselves from perceived threats, it's apparent that this couple was well aware of the impression they made (as a multitude of comments on news articles/pictures attest) on others and the reaction they would elicit. The whole incident looks like a deliberate provocation for a discrimination case. This is something men in drag have been whining about (that women would be mistaken for men) ever since the UK court decision on biological sex was announced.
So I googled this Ansley woman and she looks female to me 🤷♀️?
Don’t think she “goes to some trouble to impersonate a male” or is playing dumb? I do think she goes to zero trouble to doll up! Being so tall she’d probably still be accused of being a man (in drag). Newest news is the security guard who harassed her was fired.
Great idea. I first heard this from my friend RP, who said “Female is a fact, not a feeling,” spontaneously, and with some understandable exasperation, when telling me about her 20-something daughter’s sudden confusion about her sex and whether she really felt female or not.
Said transwoman is pulling the oldest trick in their worn-out bag of tricks: picking and choosing whichever one of the two general senses of "woman" better suits their demand to be flattered in that moment. Sport performance has nothing to do with identity. You've said it yourself, I believe, and I apologize if I misquote you here: we play sports with our bodies, not our identities. That person is not a woman, no matter how deeply alienated from manhood they feel, no matter how much sincerity backs their demand that others humor them — their identity is their problem and does not magic them into fair female competition. The linguistic games are so threadbare and sad.
To the question “If you believe ‘trans women’ aren't actually women, just say so, and explain why.”
Let me give it a shot - because they were born with functioning penises.
Is that not how doctors determine which sex to “assign” to new borns?
By the same token I also believe “transmen” aren’t actually men because they lack a penis and, to my knowledge, it is impossible for doctors to craft one that functions as intended. So many other parts that go with it, aren’t there? Yep, kinda like women.
If they made bottom surgery a requirement for competing on women's teams (I am not advocating this because if you are born male you will always be male) and someone offered to pay for these "trans women's" bottom surgery, 99% of them would disappear overnight. Because the ones pushing their way into women's spaces (all the ones who come out late in life, for example) are autogynephiles. They can't get off on violating women's boundaries if they cut their junk off.
I agree the AGP heterosexual crowd is hugely problematic but I’m starting to see homosexual males competing in women’s sports. This is where the L word must take a stand in my opinion. Not okay that you get to play for the girl’s team because you can’t cut it on the boy’s team and, frankly, we’re the last to want to see “their junk” in our locker rooms.
You want to compete then go to the Gay Games and shoot for a world record, as others have. A lot of people are not aware that the Gay Games have existed since 1982, have welcomed people of all skill levels, ages, and backgrounds and world records set there are recognized. Still waiting for clarification from their organizers on whether males can compete against females but, just saying, they’ve always maintained sex segregation.
I swam in the inaugural Gay Games in San Francisco in 1982. Won 2 golds and 2 silvers, all in freestyle events, tra-la. Felt great to be celebrated as an openly gay athlete - swimming with and against a pool full of lesbians and bisexual women.
If men had been in my event? AAARRRGGG!
Check out the Gay Games "Gender Inclusion Policy." It's all about letting men do whatever they want. I study policies, and it's the worst I've seen. Not surprisingly, but still. Totally sacrificing lesbians at the altar of male entitlement.
:-) Thanks, Clarence. I was feeling rather elitist ahead of time, minimizing it as not the "real" Olympics (it was called the Gay Olympic Games that first year, until the USOC persuaded a judge to quash it at the last minute) so no big deal... but then I got caught up in the excitement when we paraded, along with many athletes from many countries, into Kezar Stadium to the applause of thousands of fans... and it WAS rather brave to be out in 1982... Super cool.
I honestly don't know what you were talking about in your last reply to "Sonja." "Sonja" did not listen to you, was not respectful, let alone "very respectful" and did not even consider any of your points. He is an ideologue and you can tell because all he did is fire talking points back at your reasonable and empathetic discussion. I don't know why you would tell him he gave you something to think about. Everything you said was well thought out and reasoned, and backed by evidence. The reason we don't use "she" for these men is that they take even that slight encouragement to run away with our rights. Give them an inch and they take Chicago.
We are never going to have common ground upon which to agree that men do not belong in women's sports if they insist that they are really women. That is a cry for entitlement.
The boy in the pic you posted of the track competition is Terry Miller, not Andraya Yearwood. Yearwood competed for Cromwell. Miller competed for Bloomfield and has the Bloomfield jersey on in the pic.
Is arguing with these people even worth it? They are completely delusional and they believe everyone should make themselves complicit in their delusions. They want to force the world to play along with their fantasies. You cannot reason with people like this. There is no debate possible because one person understands biological reality and the other is constructing an elaborate fantasy world and insisting you play along.
I agree that it's not going to be possible to bring someone whose life is dominated by delusion to such an extent back to reality. But maybe it still worth having the conversation so that they hear the word "no" every now and again. Let them get used to it.
No, men are not women. No, we are not "cis". No, nobody owes you validation. No, women are not going to just shut up and let you have what you want, especially when that would mean giving up our own rights.
And it's important for us to get used to the sound of ourselves saying no to these entitled men, even if for now we are mostly shouted down. If we keep doing it, maybe saying no will start to feel normal and less scary.
Something overcame me recently and I argued (thoughtfully, not nastily) on Reddit that the UK Supreme Court got things right. I was banned from the Subreddit within 15 minutes and called a "Nazi." I don't regret it. I went on to comment on another subreddit and mentioned I was LGB. I wasn't banned, but everyone yelled at me for leaving out the T. I don't care.
Shannon, I have, sadly, come to the same conclusion. The true believers won't be swayed.
There's actually quite a lot of research, going back decades, that shows that facts alone don't persuade people (a generalization, of course -- "people" meaning lots and lots of people, not everyone). I have a file folder full of links to this research, too many to list here, but here are just a few for those who are interested:
Very good point, Donna! Thanks for this reminder. That’s how humans have not only conveyed information and entertained, but also persuaded others for eons.
Some of these articles indicate that a "hit them between the eyes" approach can work. Blunt, direct, relentless, take-no-prisoners. But that won't work for everyone.
Sometimes, I think one just has to give up. That's what I had to do with smokers back in the day. I had so many arguments, OMG so many, where I calmly, rationally, just asked smokers to please not force me to breathe in their smoke. That's all I asked. I never tried to take away anyone's rights, only asked that they didn't force me to consume their habit with them. Yet every time, every single time, I was met with resistance. It wasn't enough that they have their own, segregated space to smoke. No, they had to shove it down my throat, too.
Shades of the trans thing, right?
I finally gave up. Just left them with this parting shot, especially recalcitrant restaurateurs: "You can choose to do this, or you can be forced to do this. And one of these days, you will be forced. Because you refuse to be reasonable, because you refuse to take other people into consideration, because you tell me my money isn't worth as much as smokers' money, you won't end up with a segregated space; you'll end up with no space at all. You'll be shut out entirely."
Et voilà. That's exactly what happened. State legislatures one by one, and eventually the feds, made all restaurants non-smoking, as well as offices, hospitals, airplanes, etc. People who didn't grow up with this have no idea how bad it was. Just no idea.
I think there is a science of persuasion, but I don't know what it is. Maybe someone else does. I know that the gay movement succeeded due in large part to personal conversations (followed by laws), so I keep coming back to that. But yes, not every friend/acquaintance is receptive.
There’s also a cultural contagion in a positive way. For instance, I think the media is less often saying “assigned male at birth.” It’s on its way out. It’s starting to sound too absurd.
I hope so. NPR is still stuck in this groove; and given their cultural ethos and practices (which as you know I know well), I don't see them changing anytime soon, if ever.
There are no trans women, there are only men "presenting" as women, the same way putting on black face does not make you a negro or having a replacement pig heart value does not allow to identify as porcine.
There is no middle ground here anymore than it is possible to be kinda pregnant. There are male or female..... period. His problem and feelings are not my problem nor my concern and I
resent his implying otherwise. His ilk have caused more than enough suffering and damage to innocent people.
I really do not understand what you are hoping to accomplish. Not all discussions are worth having, especially this one.
Sex is not on a spectrum. It is not a choice. If any man who says he “identifies” as female can compete against women and girls, why do we have separate male and female events? Why should there be any women’s events if any man can do them better than the women? Why have any female sports where size, strength and speed determine the winner if males are welcomed into female competition? We could “let” women compete in the men’s events if they want to. The men just replace the women in women’s sports. Doesn’t that seem fair? Isn’t that what we have already done?
The real question is - why are people policing girls and women's bodies? This is causing panic amongst trans kids and CIS gender kids alike, all because of a handful of trans kids playing school sport (maybe 25 nationwide, SheWon #s are proven false). We already have meaningful restrictions, which is why there are so few examples any anti-trans people ever use (Lia Thomas, CT track kids). The rules are working to keep sport safe, fair and inclusive. The trans bans have little actual impact (because there are so few trans athletes), but create a culture of fear, hate and scrutiny of girls' and women's bodies in sport.
All of this is far more damaging to girls than you are realizing. The top reason girls drop out of sport at twice the rate of boys in adolescence is body image concerns. Right now, girls are being "outed" as trans when they are just tomboys trying to play. This anti-trans panic is telling girls everywhere - be feminine or be ashamed. I know many people mean well and want to protect girls and women, trust me, this is NOT the way to do it. Work for changes to coaching education, advocate for safe sport training and better resources. Anything but this madness. This is the result of trans bans: https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/08/us/natalie-cline-controversy-student-gender-social-media-posts
Please tell me why you say you are a woman? I see the “trans woman” picture with his maleness obvious as he crosses the tape. I know the biological difference and reasons why it is unfair for you to compete against women, remind me why you say you are woman?
Coverage of an incident exploded on T.V. and online May 8th as if it was the opening salvo of World War III. It was reported that a security guard questioned the sex identity of a person, Ansley Baker, who was using the women's bathroom at the Liberty Hotel in Boston. Ansley Baker, who looks more like a man than many men do, sports a short crew haircut, is six feet tall and favors stereotypical men's clothing. She also looks like she has a five o'clock shadow on her upper lip. Is she on testosterone? Ansley's companion, Elizabeth Victor, barely comes up to Ansley's shoulder making an even more suggestive contrast in their physical appearance. Of course Ansley Baker has to be aware of her own staged male performance. Looking at her, one would quickly assume she was a man. Still, this couple has publicized the incidence as if they were the victims of a mass murderer and the local media is playing it to the hilt. Although Ansley takes pains to look like a man, she is outraged at being mistaken for one. (Take a look at her online). Pity the poor security guard who has now been suspended from his job when he was only trying to protect the women who reported seeing a man in the Women's room. This is happening only because trans "women" insisting on using women's rooms have put many women on edge for fear of encountering a man in their bathroom. The actions of Ansley Baker and Elizabeth Victor look like nothing more than a scam to sue the hotel for big money - or a P.R. stunt to promote transgender goals. Maybe both. Why else go into a Ladies Room in Drag? This is a cruel, crude and cynical performance done knowing that people would be tricked into thinking that Ansley was a man and react accordingly.
The Attorney General of Massachusetts, Andrea Campbell (who is sympathetic to transgenderism), confirmed that they're processing complaints about the incident. The Massachusetts Commission Against Discrimination did not comment on any ongoing investigations.
Betsy, I (a cis woman) have been approached by security, given hard looks from people inside bathrooms, and had parents visibly pull their children away from the entrance when they watched me going into a public multi-stall bathroom - so that they wouldn't go in at the same time as me. In some of those instances (over many years), I do not know whether the response or hesitation was because they thought I was a man, or because they thought I was a dyke. Either way, they clearly thought I was either out of place, or some sort of danger to children (I was neither), or both, simply because of my appearance. I find it very presumptuous for someone to assume I don't belong there because of the way I look, after a brief glance in my direction. Are you suggesting that those of us with more masculine features or dress should alter our presentation in order to not have someone question our gender as we go about our day in public places?
I'm not suggesting, I'm stating that trans female impersonators insistence on invading women's bathrooms have put women and girls on edge and introduced a level of anxiety when having to use a public bathroom that wasn't there before. If Ansley Baker goes to some trouble to impersonate a male then she should deal with the reaction she gets and not play dumb. Women have a right to be concerned for their safety and the safety of their children rather than be condemned for being alert to possible threats in their environment. It is a routine tactic of trans terrorists; i.e. trying to make females feel guilty for for wanting to avoid being being harmed; for wanting privacy from men. Obviously, we have a difference of opinion on this point. Beyond whether women have a right to protect themselves from perceived threats, it's apparent that this couple was well aware of the impression they made (as a multitude of comments on news articles/pictures attest) on others and the reaction they would elicit. The whole incident looks like a deliberate provocation for a discrimination case. This is something men in drag have been whining about (that women would be mistaken for men) ever since the UK court decision on biological sex was announced.
See confirmation:
https://ykright.substack.com/p/mr-neeves-and-his-womens-restroom
Don't alter your appearance, but don't ask other women to try to alter their unease when they perceive a threat. P.S. I'm not a "cis" woman.
So I googled this Ansley woman and she looks female to me 🤷♀️?
Don’t think she “goes to some trouble to impersonate a male” or is playing dumb? I do think she goes to zero trouble to doll up! Being so tall she’d probably still be accused of being a man (in drag). Newest news is the security guard who harassed her was fired.
Thank you, Mariah.
"Female is a Fact NOT a Feeling"....great sound bite that we need to repeat wherever there is a public forum on this issue.
-JoannaVitalHealth@protonmail.com
Great idea. I first heard this from my friend RP, who said “Female is a fact, not a feeling,” spontaneously, and with some understandable exasperation, when telling me about her 20-something daughter’s sudden confusion about her sex and whether she really felt female or not.
Said transwoman is pulling the oldest trick in their worn-out bag of tricks: picking and choosing whichever one of the two general senses of "woman" better suits their demand to be flattered in that moment. Sport performance has nothing to do with identity. You've said it yourself, I believe, and I apologize if I misquote you here: we play sports with our bodies, not our identities. That person is not a woman, no matter how deeply alienated from manhood they feel, no matter how much sincerity backs their demand that others humor them — their identity is their problem and does not magic them into fair female competition. The linguistic games are so threadbare and sad.
To the question “If you believe ‘trans women’ aren't actually women, just say so, and explain why.”
Let me give it a shot - because they were born with functioning penises.
Is that not how doctors determine which sex to “assign” to new borns?
By the same token I also believe “transmen” aren’t actually men because they lack a penis and, to my knowledge, it is impossible for doctors to craft one that functions as intended. So many other parts that go with it, aren’t there? Yep, kinda like women.
If they made bottom surgery a requirement for competing on women's teams (I am not advocating this because if you are born male you will always be male) and someone offered to pay for these "trans women's" bottom surgery, 99% of them would disappear overnight. Because the ones pushing their way into women's spaces (all the ones who come out late in life, for example) are autogynephiles. They can't get off on violating women's boundaries if they cut their junk off.
I agree the AGP heterosexual crowd is hugely problematic but I’m starting to see homosexual males competing in women’s sports. This is where the L word must take a stand in my opinion. Not okay that you get to play for the girl’s team because you can’t cut it on the boy’s team and, frankly, we’re the last to want to see “their junk” in our locker rooms.
You want to compete then go to the Gay Games and shoot for a world record, as others have. A lot of people are not aware that the Gay Games have existed since 1982, have welcomed people of all skill levels, ages, and backgrounds and world records set there are recognized. Still waiting for clarification from their organizers on whether males can compete against females but, just saying, they’ve always maintained sex segregation.
Well, that's a bummer. Yep, it's just as unwelcome as the AGPs taking our spots.
I was at the 1998 Gay Games in Amsterdam! I really hope they down allow males in women's events.
I swam in the inaugural Gay Games in San Francisco in 1982. Won 2 golds and 2 silvers, all in freestyle events, tra-la. Felt great to be celebrated as an openly gay athlete - swimming with and against a pool full of lesbians and bisexual women.
If men had been in my event? AAARRRGGG!
Check out the Gay Games "Gender Inclusion Policy." It's all about letting men do whatever they want. I study policies, and it's the worst I've seen. Not surprisingly, but still. Totally sacrificing lesbians at the altar of male entitlement.
https://www.gaygames.org/gender-inclusion-policy
Wow, congratulations on your medals! How cool that you were there at the beginning.
Sadly, I was almost certain the gay games were going to be very pro trans now.
:-) Thanks, Clarence. I was feeling rather elitist ahead of time, minimizing it as not the "real" Olympics (it was called the Gay Olympic Games that first year, until the USOC persuaded a judge to quash it at the last minute) so no big deal... but then I got caught up in the excitement when we paraded, along with many athletes from many countries, into Kezar Stadium to the applause of thousands of fans... and it WAS rather brave to be out in 1982... Super cool.
Amazing!
I honestly don't know what you were talking about in your last reply to "Sonja." "Sonja" did not listen to you, was not respectful, let alone "very respectful" and did not even consider any of your points. He is an ideologue and you can tell because all he did is fire talking points back at your reasonable and empathetic discussion. I don't know why you would tell him he gave you something to think about. Everything you said was well thought out and reasoned, and backed by evidence. The reason we don't use "she" for these men is that they take even that slight encouragement to run away with our rights. Give them an inch and they take Chicago.
"Until they DRAG me off the pitch."
I see what he did there
We are never going to have common ground upon which to agree that men do not belong in women's sports if they insist that they are really women. That is a cry for entitlement.
Agree. All the other arguments failed so they resorted to changing the term, or trying to. Nope.
The boy in the pic you posted of the track competition is Terry Miller, not Andraya Yearwood. Yearwood competed for Cromwell. Miller competed for Bloomfield and has the Bloomfield jersey on in the pic.
Excellent piece, thank you!
Out of curiosity, how did you revise the story based on his input?
I think most people live a life with a "lack of affirmation" if we are using the term how it is applied here
Is arguing with these people even worth it? They are completely delusional and they believe everyone should make themselves complicit in their delusions. They want to force the world to play along with their fantasies. You cannot reason with people like this. There is no debate possible because one person understands biological reality and the other is constructing an elaborate fantasy world and insisting you play along.
No. He was a brick wall.
I agree that it's not going to be possible to bring someone whose life is dominated by delusion to such an extent back to reality. But maybe it still worth having the conversation so that they hear the word "no" every now and again. Let them get used to it.
No, men are not women. No, we are not "cis". No, nobody owes you validation. No, women are not going to just shut up and let you have what you want, especially when that would mean giving up our own rights.
And it's important for us to get used to the sound of ourselves saying no to these entitled men, even if for now we are mostly shouted down. If we keep doing it, maybe saying no will start to feel normal and less scary.
Something overcame me recently and I argued (thoughtfully, not nastily) on Reddit that the UK Supreme Court got things right. I was banned from the Subreddit within 15 minutes and called a "Nazi." I don't regret it. I went on to comment on another subreddit and mentioned I was LGB. I wasn't banned, but everyone yelled at me for leaving out the T. I don't care.
Defending reality is a thankless task sometimes!
Love these points.
Shannon, I have, sadly, come to the same conclusion. The true believers won't be swayed.
There's actually quite a lot of research, going back decades, that shows that facts alone don't persuade people (a generalization, of course -- "people" meaning lots and lots of people, not everyone). I have a file folder full of links to this research, too many to list here, but here are just a few for those who are interested:
https://archive.boston.com/news/science/articles/2010/07/11/how_facts_backfire/
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/02/27/why-facts-dont-change-our-minds
https://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/07/books/review/the-theory-that-would-not-die-by-sharon-bertsch-mcgrayne-book-review.html?searchResultPosition=7
https://theconversation.com/the-ancient-greeks-had-alternative-facts-too-they-were-just-more-chill-about-it-131815
https://www.newyorker.com/science/maria-konnikova/i-dont-want-to-be-right
https://academic.oup.com/poq/article-abstract/82/1/135/4868126?redirectedFrom=fulltext
https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/8616320-stupidity-is-a-more-dangerous-enemy-of-the-good-than
Lisa, thanks for these links. What does persuade people? Would love to hear your thoughts/summary.
Stories persuade people. IMO sad but true that most people do not care about facts.
Very good point, Donna! Thanks for this reminder. That’s how humans have not only conveyed information and entertained, but also persuaded others for eons.
Hence much of what Brian McDonald has to say…
Yes! He came to mind. Such a brilliant teacher about writing and storytelling.
I can't say I have any special insights.
Some of these articles indicate that a "hit them between the eyes" approach can work. Blunt, direct, relentless, take-no-prisoners. But that won't work for everyone.
Sometimes, I think one just has to give up. That's what I had to do with smokers back in the day. I had so many arguments, OMG so many, where I calmly, rationally, just asked smokers to please not force me to breathe in their smoke. That's all I asked. I never tried to take away anyone's rights, only asked that they didn't force me to consume their habit with them. Yet every time, every single time, I was met with resistance. It wasn't enough that they have their own, segregated space to smoke. No, they had to shove it down my throat, too.
Shades of the trans thing, right?
I finally gave up. Just left them with this parting shot, especially recalcitrant restaurateurs: "You can choose to do this, or you can be forced to do this. And one of these days, you will be forced. Because you refuse to be reasonable, because you refuse to take other people into consideration, because you tell me my money isn't worth as much as smokers' money, you won't end up with a segregated space; you'll end up with no space at all. You'll be shut out entirely."
Et voilà. That's exactly what happened. State legislatures one by one, and eventually the feds, made all restaurants non-smoking, as well as offices, hospitals, airplanes, etc. People who didn't grow up with this have no idea how bad it was. Just no idea.
I think there is a science of persuasion, but I don't know what it is. Maybe someone else does. I know that the gay movement succeeded due in large part to personal conversations (followed by laws), so I keep coming back to that. But yes, not every friend/acquaintance is receptive.
Well, I did just Google “science of persuasion” and a whole bunch of stuff came up.
There’s also a cultural contagion in a positive way. For instance, I think the media is less often saying “assigned male at birth.” It’s on its way out. It’s starting to sound too absurd.
I hope so. NPR is still stuck in this groove; and given their cultural ethos and practices (which as you know I know well), I don't see them changing anytime soon, if ever.
Good opening question. I don't know the answer. Sometimes I just feel like reaching out across that enormous divide.
There are no trans women, there are only men "presenting" as women, the same way putting on black face does not make you a negro or having a replacement pig heart value does not allow to identify as porcine.
There is no middle ground here anymore than it is possible to be kinda pregnant. There are male or female..... period. His problem and feelings are not my problem nor my concern and I
resent his implying otherwise. His ilk have caused more than enough suffering and damage to innocent people.
I really do not understand what you are hoping to accomplish. Not all discussions are worth having, especially this one.
.
Brilliant, yet once again. I have restacked.
Thanks so much, Susan.