The most fair thing for females is to keep males out of our sports. A male in a wig, a male who got surgeries, a male wearing makeup, a male who “feels like” he’s not male, a male who doesn’t want to be male—they’re all the same. They’re still male.
By definition, if males are allowed to participate in female sports, it is unfair because it’s not a sport for females anymore.
If males feel like failures and can’t compete with other males, that is their problem. Female sports isn’t a rehab space and women aren’t emotional support animals for failed men with no self-esteem. That’s not our problem.
Men can find something else to do. Play video games. Watch anime. I don’t care. Female sports are not for them.
"fairness for females is our priority. We wish it were the priority for all feminists."
This drives me mad. Groups like NOW, Feminist Majority, National Women's Law Center were some of the ones pressuring the Biden administration over Title IX rule changes! What can we do about these groups working (intentionally or not) to undermine women's interests AND giving cover to those who argue that including trans-identifying males in female sport is "feminist." I keep wondering whether we need to mount some campaign to convince them otherwise or at least make it visible that these "women's" organizations do not speak for us on this issue.
Oh yes. So strange! The Women's Sports Foundation too! Now they favor men and boys taking opportunities and victories from women and girls. Hard to believe. Dystopian. Feels like The Handmaid's Tale crossed with 1984.
Ask a man to buy sports clothes in the women’s sports section: then. Ask a woman to buy sports clothes on the men’s sports section.
Men are bigger. they have small hips, they have big upper bodies; bigger lungs and stronger upper bodies, center of gravity high.
Women are smaller they have big hips they have smaller upper bodies, less upper body strength, smaller lungs, center of gravity is low.
A measuring tape dispels all mysteries, it’s empirical and easy for everyone to access. There is a large difference in bodies, and strengths, otherwise we’d all be wearing the same size range clothes.
Every sales person knows, every parent with a boy and a girl knows. Everyone knows.
Obviously not. Have a competition for men, one separate for women, and a third one for men who feel like women, if you will. That’s the only fair arrangement. The rest is mixing apples and oranges and abusing young women who don’t deserve to see their dreams and efforts being trashed by men who suffer from gender dysphoria, average people whose brains are mashed potatoes ready to accept whatever the new fashion order is, and politicians who only care about themselves.
Hi Al, yes the only problem with the third category is that men would win that too. So men would win two of the three categories and therefore take home 2/3 of all the money and glory. But surely creative minds can find ways to accommodate people who find it intolerable to compete against members of their own sex yet still want to be athletic.
Amen. There’s another option: provide those suffering from gender dysphoria with the proper treatment and cut the rest of the crap. Let girls be girls and enjoy a fair chance at their own sports. Wow! I bet this is pure radical MAGA hate, right?
All women can compete in the women’s category, and do, regardless of gender identity, unless they take testosterone. Because, yes, women can’t compete against men and don’t want to. The fact that “transmen” quietly stay in the women’s category despite identifying as men shows that it’s not psychologically intolerable to compete according to one’s own sex even when one identifies differently.
It's so unfair in sports. Females have their menstrual cycles to contend with every week. That's 3 months of the year, and 1 years worth of menstrual cycles every 4 years. Males do not have to contend with this in their sports regimens. Males have much stronger muscles, bones, heart and lung capacities, even on estrogen. All of this is so unfair.
Yes. No one else seems to be mentioning menstruation's effect on sports participation. Funny - we female athletes spent years downplaying the downsides of female physiology, while insisting that we, too, could play sports: that our uteruses would not fall out; bicycling would not render us infertile; marathons were not too long a distance for us to run, etc. If you're not a sports history scholar you might be amazed at the litany of excuses men have used to keep us out, usually based on myths about our female bodies. We women's sports advocates resisted all of that. Yet now we need to explain - well, as a matter of fact, if you're going to contend that it's fair to pit men against us, on our own courts, well then, no, our bodies ARE different in significant ways.
Thank you Mariah. I've always had awful menstrual cycles, and I imagined there'd be female athletes who would have some too at times, and they'd have to manage their sports performance somehow.
Yes. As Martina Navratilova mentions in my latest essay. And sorry to hear that! May you eventually enjoy what my mom liked to call post-menopausal zest! 😀
We can't. It was never women's responsibility in the first place.
It may be on trans identifying male's wishlist to be fully socially accepted as women, with access to ready-made women's resources at their disposal, BUT I think people who say they're "gender diverse" should get off their backsides and create their own "gender diverse" spaces and resources, OR else use the ones that correlate with their sex.
Hi Starlight, I agree. Our group has evolved. We still try to be open-minded and compassionate, and want to hold onto those values - while also holding the line.
I think kids, especially, are being lied to: told they can "change genders," or that they're "really" the other sex or have a female brain, etc, and that hormones & surgeries and social transitions will solve their loneliness, gender-nonconformity-related bullying, internalized homophobia, etc.
When these boys, in school, show up to play on a girls' sports team, they need to be treated like the children they are, and gently informed that they are in fact boys, and that being male or female matters in sports - but if they're determined to "present" as girls, or as trans, there might be ways for them to enact that role without negatively impacting girls - by creating their own spaces, as you say, or educating boys to enlighten them to respect effeminate boys, etc.
The other kids also need proper education in biology: that there are only two sexes, and if someone is "presenting" as the other sex, that's just a matter of dress or haircut, not an actual change from one sex to another.
Not unless you mean including them in male sports where they belong.
The most fair thing for females is to keep males out of our sports. A male in a wig, a male who got surgeries, a male wearing makeup, a male who “feels like” he’s not male, a male who doesn’t want to be male—they’re all the same. They’re still male.
By definition, if males are allowed to participate in female sports, it is unfair because it’s not a sport for females anymore.
If males feel like failures and can’t compete with other males, that is their problem. Female sports isn’t a rehab space and women aren’t emotional support animals for failed men with no self-esteem. That’s not our problem.
Men can find something else to do. Play video games. Watch anime. I don’t care. Female sports are not for them.
"fairness for females is our priority. We wish it were the priority for all feminists."
This drives me mad. Groups like NOW, Feminist Majority, National Women's Law Center were some of the ones pressuring the Biden administration over Title IX rule changes! What can we do about these groups working (intentionally or not) to undermine women's interests AND giving cover to those who argue that including trans-identifying males in female sport is "feminist." I keep wondering whether we need to mount some campaign to convince them otherwise or at least make it visible that these "women's" organizations do not speak for us on this issue.
Oh yes. So strange! The Women's Sports Foundation too! Now they favor men and boys taking opportunities and victories from women and girls. Hard to believe. Dystopian. Feels like The Handmaid's Tale crossed with 1984.
In the Women's Sports Policy Working Group, we wrote an open letter to the National Women's Law Center on this subject. Perhaps of interest: https://womenssportspolicy.org/rebuttal-to-nwlc-regarding-transgender-athletes-in-womens-sports/
Thanks!
Ask a man to buy sports clothes in the women’s sports section: then. Ask a woman to buy sports clothes on the men’s sports section.
Men are bigger. they have small hips, they have big upper bodies; bigger lungs and stronger upper bodies, center of gravity high.
Women are smaller they have big hips they have smaller upper bodies, less upper body strength, smaller lungs, center of gravity is low.
A measuring tape dispels all mysteries, it’s empirical and easy for everyone to access. There is a large difference in bodies, and strengths, otherwise we’d all be wearing the same size range clothes.
Every sales person knows, every parent with a boy and a girl knows. Everyone knows.
Oh yes. Good point about clothes!Such contortions ppl go thru to deny this obvious fact & privilege men.
Obviously not. Have a competition for men, one separate for women, and a third one for men who feel like women, if you will. That’s the only fair arrangement. The rest is mixing apples and oranges and abusing young women who don’t deserve to see their dreams and efforts being trashed by men who suffer from gender dysphoria, average people whose brains are mashed potatoes ready to accept whatever the new fashion order is, and politicians who only care about themselves.
Hi Al, yes the only problem with the third category is that men would win that too. So men would win two of the three categories and therefore take home 2/3 of all the money and glory. But surely creative minds can find ways to accommodate people who find it intolerable to compete against members of their own sex yet still want to be athletic.
Amen. There’s another option: provide those suffering from gender dysphoria with the proper treatment and cut the rest of the crap. Let girls be girls and enjoy a fair chance at their own sports. Wow! I bet this is pure radical MAGA hate, right?
All women can compete in the women’s category, and do, regardless of gender identity, unless they take testosterone. Because, yes, women can’t compete against men and don’t want to. The fact that “transmen” quietly stay in the women’s category despite identifying as men shows that it’s not psychologically intolerable to compete according to one’s own sex even when one identifies differently.
It's so unfair in sports. Females have their menstrual cycles to contend with every week. That's 3 months of the year, and 1 years worth of menstrual cycles every 4 years. Males do not have to contend with this in their sports regimens. Males have much stronger muscles, bones, heart and lung capacities, even on estrogen. All of this is so unfair.
Yes. No one else seems to be mentioning menstruation's effect on sports participation. Funny - we female athletes spent years downplaying the downsides of female physiology, while insisting that we, too, could play sports: that our uteruses would not fall out; bicycling would not render us infertile; marathons were not too long a distance for us to run, etc. If you're not a sports history scholar you might be amazed at the litany of excuses men have used to keep us out, usually based on myths about our female bodies. We women's sports advocates resisted all of that. Yet now we need to explain - well, as a matter of fact, if you're going to contend that it's fair to pit men against us, on our own courts, well then, no, our bodies ARE different in significant ways.
Thank you Mariah. I've always had awful menstrual cycles, and I imagined there'd be female athletes who would have some too at times, and they'd have to manage their sports performance somehow.
Yes. As Martina Navratilova mentions in my latest essay. And sorry to hear that! May you eventually enjoy what my mom liked to call post-menopausal zest! 😀
We can't. It was never women's responsibility in the first place.
It may be on trans identifying male's wishlist to be fully socially accepted as women, with access to ready-made women's resources at their disposal, BUT I think people who say they're "gender diverse" should get off their backsides and create their own "gender diverse" spaces and resources, OR else use the ones that correlate with their sex.
Hi Starlight, I agree. Our group has evolved. We still try to be open-minded and compassionate, and want to hold onto those values - while also holding the line.
I think kids, especially, are being lied to: told they can "change genders," or that they're "really" the other sex or have a female brain, etc, and that hormones & surgeries and social transitions will solve their loneliness, gender-nonconformity-related bullying, internalized homophobia, etc.
When these boys, in school, show up to play on a girls' sports team, they need to be treated like the children they are, and gently informed that they are in fact boys, and that being male or female matters in sports - but if they're determined to "present" as girls, or as trans, there might be ways for them to enact that role without negatively impacting girls - by creating their own spaces, as you say, or educating boys to enlighten them to respect effeminate boys, etc.
The other kids also need proper education in biology: that there are only two sexes, and if someone is "presenting" as the other sex, that's just a matter of dress or haircut, not an actual change from one sex to another.
Thanks!